On Black Arrow and Wyvern Sting

To answer Gundersson's last comment; yes, Wyvern was made our top tier talent in 1.7, and remained so until TBC.

I actually got Black Arrow and ES back recently with the talent reset, and I'm finding now that they don't make me too bored. I still use Immolation Trap for a couple of reasons:-

a) Because, although the damage over time is only marginally more, it still does it over 6 seconds, it kills things faster, at least once the trap goes off.

b) Because of the way I'm specced, I get Entrapment procs, which stack with the one second stun from Charge. It can be good for allowing me to get range once the trap goes off, or to help with kiting when I use Frost.

c) I just enjoy trapping more, although I'm not stupid about it, either. There are times when, as I've said, I'm 40 yards away from one particular mob, but there are others between it and me, and I don't necessarily want to pull every other mob between me and it. There are also times when I'm in a hurry, for whatever reason, and as long as I've got range, I will use Black Arrow then.

The reason why I don't feel that Black Arrow has made us a clone of Marksmanship, is because in the past, what we would have used for long range work is Wyvern Sting, but Wyvern has always been on a long CD. Black Arrow for me isn't so much purely a ranged L&L proc, (the presumed raider mentality) as it is a free second use of Wyvern Sting, without the sleep, but which *also* allows me to stack the near 3k damage of Serpent on top of it.

I understand that in raid terms, generating L&L procs might be considered the only reason why Survival exists, but the reason why I don't raid is precisely because I want to be able to do what I want.

So when I'm farming, getting an L&L proc isn't actually my main goal in life. I will often either use an Immolation Trap, Serpent, and a single ES, or BA, Serpent, and a single ES; or sometimes even just Serpent and a single ES, which also usually kills things very rapidly as well. When 3.0 first came out, I was as much an L&L junky as anyone else; but then GC put it on a cooldown, which I found clunky and annoying, so I learned to live without it.

The only time I really definitely want an L&L proc is when I'm doing group work (in terms of mobs) with Frost Trap. When that happens, against three targets, they will all get one ES each, or with two targets, the pet's will get two ES, and the second mob will get Serpent and one, usually with a Feign as well.

Another thing you may or may not find interesting; when farming, I never use Steady. At all. It is horribly mana inefficient, and use of Steady might have a lot to do with why you've mentioned that your pet can't hold threat either, Gundersson.

I often have scenarios where I'll rapidly hear the "exceeded pet threat," sound effect in Omen 3 or so times per kill. Have any of you heard of barreling waves, in surfing? That's essentially what I do with threat, and you can only do it if, once you've got some dots up, you use pure autoshot after it.